Nie: Hello! Thank you very much for your interview. Talents refer to people with both ability and political integrity and people with rich literary talent. It is recorded in the ancient book "Eighteen Years of Zuo Wen Zhuan Gong": "The Levin family has eight gifted scholars ... the world calls them eight kai." "The Biography of Yuan Zhen in the New Tang Dynasty" is "better than poetry ... the palace is called" Yuan Cai Zi "." In the 2004 supplement of Modern Chinese Dictionary, it refers to talented people. Everyone calls me that, which should be said to be my personal affirmation and respect. Zhuangzi, Qu Yuan, Tao Yuanming, Li Bai, Han Yu, Liu Yong, Tang Yin, Robben, Cao Xueqin and Hu Shi are the top ten talents in China's historical and literary circles. The top ten gifted scholars in modern China are Xu Zhimo, Qian Zhongshu, Liang Shiqiu, Lu Xun, Lin Yutang, Guo Moruo, Hu Shi, Zhou Zuoren, Shen Congwen and Yu Dafu. Some people also rated the top ten gifted scholars in contemporary China as Confucius, Zhi 'an and Yu Hua in Beijing, Luo Wenhua in Tianjin, Su Tong, Ye, Su Tong in Nanjing, LULU in Wuhan and Wu Liyang in Haikou. The meaning of gifted scholar is quite broad, and I don't want to explain it literally. I have always believed that people who are called gifted scholars are people who combine "knowledge" with "realm". In Liu Xie's "Wen Xin Diao Long Yin Zhi", "It takes a thousand songs to practice your bosom friend and a thousand swords to know your instrument". Any success is accumulated in advance, especially in literature and art, and the creation of literature and art is a process of accumulation. The so-called accumulation means learning and keeping the sensitivity of thinking. We should not only read the classics at home and abroad, but also pay attention to reality. For example, read some thoughtful newspapers and magazines and get in touch with the works of scholars such as Xiong Shili, Feng Youlan, Jin, He Lin, Fei Xiaotong, Ji Xianlin, Tang, Master and Qian Zhongshu. At the same time, after a period of accumulation, it is also an essential link to try to think, analyze and create from multiple angles. A work is worth studying, which can be deeply studied and discussed from the aspects of literature, philosophy, aesthetics, human studies, poetics and sociology. For example, in A Dream of Red Mansions, wu shichang, a famous redologist, commented that "the red chamber is the world, and the world is the red chamber". When you walk in, you will know that "a flower is the world and a leaf is the bodhi". It takes a long time to form this habit, and in the process of literary and artistic creation, there will be carefree "flowing water from the source". Of course, creating a good work needs a kind of inspiration and realm. Nietzsche said in Zarathustra that idols should be destroyed and all their values should be re-evaluated. Getting rid of the bondage and the "idol" in your heart just emphasizes a kind of freedom. Only under freedom can you produce the kind of "spirit" that transcendentalism Emerson said. Of course, the "spirit" mentioned here is different from the "genius and talent" emphasized in Liu Xie's Wen Xin Diao Long Ti Xing, which should be classified as an inspiration. This inspiration is similar to the "nothingness" in Being and Nothingness written by French Sartre, and it is something that only people can perceive. This inspiration is based on the accumulation mentioned above. After reading many books such as romain rolland, Ye Zhi, Hesse, Eliot, Hemingway, Beckett, Yasunari Kawabata, Kafka, Rilke, Montaigne, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Baudelaire, Apolline, etc., it will naturally occur in the brain. The second is the realm, which should be the realm of heaven and earth in Feng Youlan's realm, or the academic realm and artistic realm in Zong Baihua's six realms, similar to the realm of ecstasy in aesthetics. It may be too difficult to say this, but it is not. This realm is not created by oneself, but a natural brain function, and everyone will achieve it as long as they work hard. Just like when I used to study in the provincial library, the library was silent. A beam of sunshine came in and hit the spine of the book, and the faint dust danced in the dusk. I remembered the poem "Man lives poetically on the earth" by the German poet Holderlin, and I had the impulse to write. So I ignored the people and things around me and wrote a book. After 30 minutes, I wrote an article of more than a thousand words without adding any words. This is especially true for calligraphy and seal cutting works, which are often highly artistic.
Reporter: You mentioned calligraphy just now. Can you briefly introduce your views on calligraphy?
Nie: In the abstract, calligraphy is a unique writing, a combined writing and an abstract painting. Rhythmic music, silent songs, tangible images; It is dancing ink, smart lines and the dance of pen and ink; Black and white color, Tao Qing's nature, open feeling; It is the body of yin and yang, the spirit of neutralization and the rhyme of melody; Harmonious wisdom, the strength of combining rigidity with softness, and the beauty of harmony; It is exquisite ingenuity, superior quality and simple quality. It is the elegance of a famous minister, the escape of a hermit, and the beauty of god; It is the reconciliation of Confucian doctrine of the mean, the dilution of Taoist inaction and the Zen mind of Buddhist epiphany; It is the art of combining form and spirit, the way of integrating man and nature, and the way of skillfully creating nature. As far as calligraphy is concerned, calligraphers of all ages have paid attention to and discussed it to varying degrees. In Han and Wei Dynasties, there were images-based, in Jin Dynasty, rhyme-based, in Tang Dynasty, law-based and in Song Dynasty, etc. These are the summaries of aesthetic trends in the practice of calligraphy art in various times, which in turn guide the practice of calligraphy creation and promote the development and prosperity of calligraphy art. Calligraphy creation also has a realm. First, it emphasizes "diligence", "dharma" and "loyalty"; Secondly, it is the realm of "breaking the law with me", emphasizing "breaking the law", "choosing" and "having me"; The third realm is the realm of "making laws and forgetting myself", emphasizing "freedom", "forgetting myself", "carrying Tao" and "good artistic conception" Freedom is a wonderful state of "I don't know why" In Su Shi's comments on cursive script, "the book was originally a beauty without heart", and freedom was also manifested in "impossible" and "Shi Tao". The "carrier" should be a line carrier. Master Hongyi's intensive study of Sanskrit made his calligraphy more and more refined in his later years, giving people a feeling of being out of touch. It is precisely because of the in-depth study of poetry, drama, music, painting, seal cutting and Buddhism that his calligraphy presents a solemn atmosphere after religious baptism and contains profound life experiences. Artistic expression, Chernyshevski said in "The Aesthetic Relationship between Art and Reality": "Everything we see in it, according to our understanding, should live like this, that is beauty." Hu Jingzhi, an aesthetician, also said in Aesthetics of Literature and Art: "The development of art is such a trend. The more modern and contemporary, the more attention is paid to soul, lyricism and artistic conception. " The mystery of Zhang Xu's calligraphy is precisely because his works contain the true feelings of being intoxicated and dreaming of death, and his skillful brushwork shows them incisively and vividly, which makes his brushwork churn, the momentum open and close, and Wan Li's spiritual realm realize an epiphany. It should be said that what can reach the three realms should be "divine products" or "one product". It is quite difficult to reach this height, and it is necessary to go beyond "I in the scene" and reach "I in the fairy". "Preface to Lanting Collection" suddenly realized his calm manner of "talking about your unrequited love", and the manuscript of mourning for his nephew mourned his grief and indignation. Calligraphy has a soul, which is China culture and China spirit. It contains elegant humanities, profound philosophy, rich traditions and unique aesthetics. Speaking of this, there are some interesting phenomena in the development of calligraphy in China today, that is, the emergence of calligraphy scholars and scholars' calligraphy formulations. A true scholar must be a thorough intellectual, and a true intellectual must be a scholar. Of course, when I say intellectuals, I mean something special. There are essential differences between true intellectuals and ordinary intellectuals. The former not only devotes himself to professional academic research, but also thinks and discusses the public society, while the latter just sticks to his own field. They only study literature and history, those who study Confucius only study Confucius, and those who study Ming history only study Ming history. They don't interfere with other fields. From another angle, they can be said to be. For example, Wang Guowei, Zhang Taiyan, Shen Cengzhi, Ma Yifu, Xiong Shili, Guo Moruo and Chen Yinque are all versatile intellectuals, while contemporary Zong Rao, Ji Xianlin, Li Xueqin, Qin Gui and Xu Youyu are all intellectuals with both talents. But scholars like Ouyang Zhongshi basically belong to the professional field. A large number of scholars and calligraphers have emerged in contemporary calligraphy. They have their own research fields, including epigraphy, calligraphy and painting, archaeology, history and philosophy. They can be said to be masters of literature, history and philosophy, such as Zong Rao, Liang Piyun, Ji Xianlin, Wen, Qi Gong, Ren, Li Xueqin, etc., while young and middle-aged people have Cong Wenjun, Bai, etc. Let's go back to the discussion of calligraphy itself. The quality of calligraphy has a lot to do with personality. In the Western Han Dynasty, Yang Xiong had a famous view that "the book is a painting of the heart", and he believed that the works of calligraphy art were a direct reflection of the calligrapher's thoughts, morality and taste. Zhu's "Continued Books" in the Northern Song Dynasty also reached a similar conclusion. Liu Xizai's A Brief Introduction to Arts and Literature clearly states: "Books are like people, like learning, like talents, like ambition. In short, they are like people. " In a word, to write calligraphy well, we must first work hard, and then we will gradually and imperceptibly discover ourselves, feel and reach a certain height, that is, to "learn from the past" and surpass "the past".
Reporter: Can you tell me more about your understanding or views on painting?
Nie: OK. It should be said that it is also vague to talk about painting on a large scale, because there are many classifications of painting. According to the different tool materials and techniques, painting can be divided into Chinese painting, oil painting, printmaking, watercolor painting and gouache painting. Chinese painting can be divided into meticulous and freehand brushwork according to the meticulous and extensive techniques. Prints can also be divided into woodcuts, copperplate prints, paper prints, lithographs and screen prints. Prints can be divided into etching prints, mimeographs, watermark woodcuts, black-and-white prints and color matching prints according to plate making methods and printing techniques. At the same time, these kinds of paintings are divided into figure painting, landscape painting and still life painting according to the different objects depicted. Figure painting can be divided into portrait painting, historical painting, religious painting, genre painting, military painting, figure painting and so on. I personally like and am good at Chinese painting, and I know a lot about it. At the same time, I contacted some Chinese painting experts. In 2009, I was deeply touched by the exchange and study with the famous painter Feng Xunwen, and then I wrote an essay. The beginning is: "carry forward the ancient civilization and condense the charm of China;" Luo Jingwei's Wind and Rain in One Hundred Generations, Yan Huang's Legacy: Chinese painting, like this! "As a tangible poem, Chinese painting is orderly and neat; It is the joy of rhyme, ups and downs and clear rhythm. Since ancient times, celebrities have been romantic, bringing together literati. Floating in the Dragon City of Quedi, sinking in the folk customs of Chun. The aura of heaven and earth cultivates sentiment; Gentleman's Confucian style, cultivate one's morality and cultivate one's character. Chinese painting embodies the national consciousness and aesthetic taste of the Chinese nation in content and artistic creation, and reflects the ancient people's understanding of nature, society and politics, philosophy, religion, morality, literature and art related to it. Traditional Chinese painting emphasizes "the nature of foreign teachers is the source of China's heart", melts things into nature, and requires "meaning to save a pen first, painting as best as possible", which is vivid in form and spirit. Chinese painting originated from hieroglyphics. At first, writing is no different from drawing. There is a saying in China that calligraphy and painting are homologous. Both books and paintings emphasize the use of brush strokes to express feelings, so painting, calligraphy and seal cutting influence and promote each other. The history of China's painting can be traced back to the painted pottery patterns and rock paintings of Neolithic Age in primitive society, and then to Qin Dynasty, and it developed continuously in Wei, Jin, Southern and Northern Dynasties. In the Sui and Tang Dynasties, the country was unified, the society was stable, and the overall level of painting reached a higher level. We are familiar with Wu Daozi, Zhou Fang, Zhan Ziqian, Li Sixun, Wang Wei, Zhang Jian and so on. Palace paintings in the Five Dynasties and the Song Dynasty were very popular. During the Yuan, Ming and Qing Dynasties, ink-wash landscape painting and freehand brushwork flower-and-bird painting developed significantly, and literati painting became the mainstream of Chinese painting. Literati painting emphasizes the expression of subjective feelings, "not seeking resemblance" and "not seeking worldly feelings", does not follow the aesthetic requirements of the public, shows elegance by painting, shows interest by leisure, advocates "learning from nature" and "learning from nature", emphasizes the unity of personality and painting, and pays attention to the organic integration of pen and ink interest with poetry, books and seals. /kloc-After the 0/9th century, a large number of painters gathered in developed central cities, all of whom were the leading figures of modern painting in China. Jiangsu and Zhejiang painters with Shanghai as the center are Ren Yi, Xu Gu, Wu Changshuo, Huang, Liu Haisu, Pan Tianshou, Zhu Zhan, Zhang Daqian, Fu Baoshi, Lu, and northern painters with Beijing as the center are Qi Baishi, Jin Cheng and others. Gao, Chen, He Xiangning,,, and others are Lingnan painters with Guangzhou as the center.
Chinese painting is a combination of "three unique skills". There are also different opinions about "three unique skills", some are "poetry and calligraphy", and the legend of Gu Kaizhi in the Book of Jin is "talent, painting and infatuation". At the same time, it emphasizes "six qualities" and "six essentials". In the Northern Song Dynasty, Liu Daochun put forward the formula of painting recognition in the Review of Famous Paintings in the Holy Dynasty. "The so-called six elders ask for a rough brine, two talents are eccentric, three talents are delicate, four talents are crazy, five talents are ink-free, and six talents are flat"; Calligraphy Notes of the Five Dynasties: "Fu painting has six essentials: qi, rhyme, thought, scenery and pen and ink", and Liu Daochun's Comments on the Famous Paintings of the Flea Dynasty in the Northern Song Dynasty put forward that "the so-called six essentials, both qi and rhyme, are old-fashioned, reasonable in change, colorful in painting, come and go naturally, and learn from others". Traditional Chinese painting avoids "six qi" and "three diseases". In the Qing Dynasty, Zou Yigui painted a mountain. "Painting avoids six qi, that is, tacky, such as village women painting; Second, the craftsman is angry and the work has no rhyme; Third, anger, pen battles and sharp edges are too exposed; Fourth, it is grassy, rough and rarely elegant; Fifth, the boudoir is slim and weak, with no bones at all; Six times, it is black, ignorant and arrogant, and evil and unbearable. " "Three diseases" refers to "board, carving and knot". Of course, if I have to choose, I still agree with Shi Tao's "One Painting Theory". "Too old to be simple, and the law is established, too simple and scattered. Where is the law?" Standing in the picture. In Shi Tao's Quotations on Painting, the essence of the painter's Chinese painting creation is "seeking for the best peaks and manuscripts" and "pen and ink should keep pace with the times", which reflects the reality of the times and keeps pace with the times, and is an eternal truth. Fan Ceng, a famous contemporary master of Chinese painting, also advocates the pursuit of natural realm with the essence of Shi Tao's "One Painting Theory".
Reporter: You have sent many famous people to print for yourself. I have met several of them, and they all spoke highly of your printing. You just talked about calligraphy and painting, why don't you talk about seal cutting?
Nie: The origin of seal cutting is relatively early. The Records of Sacrifice in the History of Han Dynasty records: "Since the Five Emperors, there has been a book agreement. As for the Three Kings, the customs of engraving, cheating and counterfeiting have gradually flourished, and there are seals to stop traitors." The word "seal" in seal cutting was written as "truth" in ancient times, and "it is good to be lucky and true." All the concave and convex patterns carved on jade or stone are called "truth". After bamboo and silk became a popular writing tool, the symbol of seal script changed from "jade" to bamboo. Before the Spring and Autumn Period, Warring States Period and Qin Dynasty, seal cutting was called "Xi". After Qin Shihuang unified the six countries, it was stipulated that "Xi" was used exclusively by the emperor, and the seals of ministers and people below were collectively called "seal". Therefore, the emperor took the seal as a seal or treasure, the official seal as a seal, general print as a seal, and the private seal as a seal. The Han dynasty was a prosperous period of seal cutting, which was called Han seal in history, and the font evolved from Xiao seal to Miao seal. The printing forms and buttons in Chinese and India are very beautiful. Xi Gang of the Eight Schools of Xiling once said: "India is the ancestor of the Han Dynasty, such as poetry in the Tang Dynasty and literature in the Jin Dynasty." During the Tang and Song Dynasties, due to the preference of the literati, although the seal script system was changed, it was still printed with seal script. It was not until the Ming and Qing Dynasties, when there were a large number of Indians, that seal cutting became an art form based on seal script, expressing density and separation on the direct surface by carving. Then seal cutting changed from carving in a broad sense to management printing in a narrow sense. Seal cutting is also divided into many schools, such as Huizhou School, such as Baweizu, Hutang, Dong Xun, Su Xuan, Wang Jiao, Cheng Pu and Zhu Jian. Their seal cutting features have strengthened the absorption of the advantages of Qin and Han dynasties, with simple seal cutting methods, straight rules, blunt knife cutting and concise lines; Ding Jing, Jiang Ren, Xi Gang, Chen Yuzhong, Chen Hongshou and Zhao are the eight famous schools in Zhejiang Xiling. Their printing methods and Han Zong often attend official ceremonies, pay attention to the knife method, and be good at using the knife to express the brushwork. The square is round, rich and simple, and Gu Zhuo is rich and unique. There are many others, such as Futenma School, Yun Jian School, Zen School and so on. Of course, in the late Qing Dynasty, some seal cutting masters such as Zhao, Wu Changshuo and He, and in modern times, Qi Baishi and He were quite successful. The most important things in seal cutting are composition, calligraphy and knife cutting. Deng Sanmu seal cutting has 14 kinds of rules, and then some people divide it into 25 kinds, including light and heavy, increase and decrease, flexion and extension, bias and error, clutch, thickness, straight and long, and interlude. Personally, I think the idea of single-sided printing can be integrated through various typesetting methods. For example, the full-real method, the full-virtual method, the upper-real and lower-virtual method, the upper-virtual and lower-real method, the left-real and right-virtual method, the diagonal virtual-real method, the virtual-real alternating method and the virtual-real alternating method have appropriate layout; There are also blank methods, upper and lower blank methods, upper and lower blank methods, diagonal blank method, diagonal blank method, vertical blank method in printing, vertical red method in printing, horizontal red method in printing, blank method in printing, blank method in printing, blank method in printing, left and right blank method, red and white staggered, and arranged reasonably; Printing skew method, printing overlap method, printing left red method, printing left red method, printing missing word method, printing hyphenation method, printing expansion method, printing filling word method, printing art method, printing decoration method, printing size method, printing matching method, stippling symmetry method, stippling thickness method and stippling method. The above are some theoretical knowledge about composition, and the key is to have a practical epiphany in printing. Of course, a good seal needs to be done well in all aspects and also needs an inspiration. As I just said, calligraphy is produced in a realm.
Reporter: Well, these artistic things should not only be gifted, but also be accumulated day after day. If you accumulate more, you should think deeply and study, that is, you should be "rich" and "refined". After a long time, they will naturally reach that level, right?
Nie: Right. It is "Alas, my son came here to study business!" in Su Shi's Send to Zhang Hu in the Song Dynasty. I have a broad vision and have accumulated a lot, but I will stop here. " I have learned a lot and accumulated a lot. "Specialization" and "erudition" are interdependent and interactive. Only by showing "erudition" in "specialization" and "erudition" can we make a difference.
Reporter: As a master of poetry, you should say that you are very accomplished in poetry and ode. Nowadays, many people prefer modern poetry, and the expressions of modern poetry and ancient poetry are completely different. What do you think of these poetic styles and modern poetry?
Nie: The Kangxi Dictionary has an explanation of poetry on page 1 188. In Shuowen, "ambition" and "explanation of names" are "where ambition lies." , and so on. Wen Yiduo has verified that "poetry" and "ambition" are originally the same word, and "ambition" is from "scholar" to "heart", which means staying in the heart, but actually it is memory. After the writing came into being, with the help of literature, there is no need for rote learning. All the records written at this time are called "ambition", which is poetry, heart is ambition, and words are poetry. Poetry can be divided into classical poetry and modern poetry according to rhythm. Classical poems, including those before Tang Dynasty, are unified into ancient poems, Chu Ci poems and Yuefu poems. Poems in ancient poetry genres such as Song, Gexing, Quotations, Qu and Ling are also ancient poems. Classical poetry does not talk about antithesis and rhymes freely. Generally speaking, the development track of ancient poetry is the literati's five-character poems, such as the Book of Songs, Chu Ci, Han Fu, Han Yuefu, Wei, Jin, Southern and Northern Dynasties folk songs, Jian 'an poems, Tao poems, etc., to the ancient style and new Yuefu in the Tang Dynasty. Modern poetry, compared with classical poetry, is also called modern poetry, which is a kind of metrical poetry formed in the Tang Dynasty. It is divided into metrical poems and quatrains, and there are strict restrictions on the number of words, sentences, levels and rhymes. Words, also known as poems, long and short sentences, songs, songs, Yuefu and so on. It is characterized by fixed tones, fixed sentences and fixed words. Qu, also known as Yuefu. These are all developed and evolved according to certain laws. Poetry is divided into five words and seven words. In fact, they all come from four words. The four words are flat, the front foot is flat, that is, the foot is flat and the middle is flat; The flat feet in front, that is, the flat feet and the flat tail, become flat and flat; Flat feet at the back, that is, flat feet or flat feet, and flat feet in the middle; The foot at the back has changed, that is, the flat foot has become flat, and the tail has become flat. In this way, four types of five words come out. On the basis of five words, add seven words in front to get four types, as do nine words and eleven words. On the premise of not emphasizing contradiction and salvation, it is composed of four forms of standardized modern poetry. Words are all transferred from poems, many of which are due to contradictions and salvation, or the sentences are too long and divided. Therefore, if a person wants to learn to write lyrics, he must learn to write poems. Modern poetry has nothing to do with ancient poetry, but a great breakthrough in form. I have articles in "Poetry of the Earth", such as "Poetry of the Earth-Exchange and Development of Chinese and Western Modernist Poetry" and "Poetry of the Earth-Classical Poetry and Modernist Poetry", and I have made in-depth analysis. In the article "On Poetry in the World —— Communication and Development of Chinese and Western Modernist Poetry", the author broke through the traditional method of dividing poetry by time periods in China, and put forward "Modernist Poetry" from the essence of poetry and the development of modern poetry in the West and China. Modernist poetry is the most important poetic phenomenon in the 20th century. Its origin can be traced back to C.P. Baudrillard in the middle of19th century, including symbolism, futurism, dadaism, surrealism, cubism, imagism and many other schools. In Poems on the Earth-Classical Poetry and Modernist Poetry, this paper expounds the inheritance relationship between modernist poetry and classical poetry by means of comparison.