Pamuk's bookshelf
In the new work "Red-haired Woman", young Jim follows the well digger Mahmoud to dig a well in the small town of Englan. Master and apprentice gradually became like father and son in their work, but the water didn't come. Disappointed Jim and the red-haired woman of the wandering troupe got closer and closer. After an accident, Jim fled the town in panic. Thirty years later, Jim, who became the boss of a construction company, came back to the small town by chance and ushered in his own destiny. Like Pamuk's life, his works continue to shuttle between the East and the West, comparing the two literary traditions in his favorite way. He admits that he is writing slowly now, and every work has been brewing in his chest for a long time. After finishing "Red-haired Woman", he immediately began to write his next work.
Pamuk's Anna karenin series
At the just-concluded book ordering meeting in Beijing, the publishing plan released by Century Wenjing includes the Chinese version of The Red-haired Woman, and the novel will be published in March. Recently, an exclusive interview was conducted at Pamuk's residence in new york.
Orhan Pamuk
What was the biggest cultural shock when you first came to America?
Pamuk: Good question. 1985 came with his ex-wife and was exposed to various resources such as libraries, museums and cinemas. It was the eve of the electronic revolution. I came from Turkey, with a narrow vision and a small cultural industry. Suddenly, I came into contact with this huge cultural resource, especially American universities, cultural organizations and movies. At that time, movies were very important and hard to get. I was 33 years old that year, and I was already a famous writer in Turkey. Such a huge cultural shock prompted me to ask myself: What is my Turkish identity? What is "Turkish characteristics"? I had written two novels at that time, but I was not interested in Sophie, Muslim culture and texts. I am a pro-western liberal politically, and I seek more precedents from Europe. When I first came to new york and experienced the cultural shock, I began to read more classic Turkish literature and Ottoman literature. Maybe I began to say to myself: My God, there is so much world literature and so much American literature. Where is Turkish literature? I'm starting to worry.
I was lucky at that time. Someone at Columbia University read my novel, and they hired me as a visiting scholar. There are many excellent Turkish books and works in the Ottoman period in Columbia University. I have read these books, and finished reading the novel black book. Cultural shock helped me relive my roots as a Turk, but the way to relive it was not traditional, but postmodern and experimental. 1985, postmodernism is very important here, and I have learned a lot from it. I call myself a postmodern novelist, and many people don't want to be labeled as such, but I'm not embarrassed about it. It saved me. With the help of postmodern literature and inspired by Borges and Calvino, I tell the story of Osman in a brand-new and contemporary way. This is the foundation of my literature.
When you experience cultural conflicts, do you also criticize this culture?
Pamuk: It's easy to criticize culture. What I seek in culture is not its failure, but what I can learn from it and use to express myself. For example, I have a large collection of China landscape paintings. Why? When I was writing My Name is Red, I became interested in Indian painting and China painting, so I read many related works. For me, they are good resources. But I am not an expert in traditional Chinese painting, nor am I an expert in post-modern literature. I know them and borrow them. Culture is like a tree to me, bearing delicious fruits for you to pick and use. Every culture has its weaknesses and boring places. But when I am not interested in it, I will think, maybe I don't know enough about it myself. I criticize the government, but my attitude towards culture is moderate. When I was in new york, my girlfriend, family and friends were not around. I often go to museums. It is very important for me to teach books in new york for one semester every year, which can help me get rid of the harsh political environment in my motherland.
In an interview with Paris Review, you mentioned that "every work represents a stage of a writer's development". What kind of development or change did you feel during the creation of this new book?
Pamuk: Compared with my other works, this novel is simpler, faster and shorter. This is the length I set myself. It still covers the themes I explored in my works such as My Name is Red and Black Book, and rewrites the classic stories. But in this book, for the first time, I compared King Oedipus by Sophocles and Kings by Persian poet Ferdowsi, both of which are classic works published by penguins. I teach in Columbia, and Sophocles' name is engraved on the wall of Gotham Library. These European and western classics gave Freud the theory of patricide. But in Turkey, we have a story about a father killing his son. This story contains different meanings, so I want to discuss these themes.
With the growth of my age, the speed of my writing is gradually less than my imagination of my next work. And I have been imagining new works for the past forty years, so I have many unfinished books, and I often talk about them. Now each of my books is a work that I have been thinking about for twenty or thirty years. During this time, you will ponder the theme, check its feasibility, and discuss its problems and drama. I still have to worry about how to write it, whether it looks good or not, and whether it can make my characters brilliant. These are always difficult. Whether you write the first work or the eleventh work, it is equally difficult. But enough thinking will help.
This book, for example, comes from two inspirations. 1988, while I was writing at home, a well digger took his apprentice to dig a well not far from the window. It rained and their tent was broken; Usually, they watch TV and cook. They told me a story, but it took me twenty-five years to finish it. Secondly, I read many classical stories when I wrote My Name is Red, and even the Turks forgot them. I'm still teaching Sophocles' King Oedipus. Over the years, these stories have been intertwined and blended together.
Another reason is that the political situation in Turkey is deteriorating and becoming more and more dictatorial. But unfortunately, people will still vote for the current government. Why? I give a slightly exaggerated answer: because the government is looking for water for them-providing them with economic growth and providing services to the bottom-and other political parties can't do this. I firmly believe that Turks support the ruling party not because of religious or political factors but because of economic development.
Red-haired woman
The red-haired woman in the novel is impressive, especially when she was questioned by a natural red-haired woman and said, "I chose red hair on my own initiative."
Pamuk: First of all, a friend told me this sentence. I told a professor friend that I was writing a novel about a red-haired woman. This friend knew a red-haired woman and she told me the details. But I still need to put this detail in a suitable position. After listening to her story, I said to myself, Oh, my God! Maybe I should give the redhead a monologue. Besides, redheads have different meanings all over the world. Two months after the book was published, I was in England. God, there are women with red hair everywhere. They were born with red hair. In English literature, from Shakespeare to Plath, redheads represent angry women and unruly women. But in Turkey, red hair is dyed, not artificial. It represents a challenge to society: "yes, I like it, I want to be different!" Although this is a negative image, I still choose this. "
The description of the underground world in the first part of this book is very touching. How did you prepare for this study?
Pamuk: I like doing research for every job, but I'm not proud of it. What makes me proud is the literariness and originality of my works. When I tell others how much preparation I have made, I feel like a person without talent. When writing Snow, I went to the northeast border town to experience it on the spot. When I wrote My Name is Red, I read many classic documents and looked up many paintings. I interviewed many street vendors when I wrote Strange Things in My Head. This book first came from the pair of well diggers I interviewed outside the window 25 years ago, but that's just a story. What's the skill of digging wells? Three and a half years ago, I decided to write this book, so I found many retired well diggers from Istanbul and interviewed them. Unfortunately, we don't have the memoirs of the digger. But their stories are wonderful! Because of their outstanding skills, these well diggers I found were hired by the government to dig deep wells with a history of thousands of years, ancient wells of Byzantine churches, and they found coins, weapons and various bones underground. These materials also make me eager to write this story.
One detail about the hero's son in the book is that he is writing for a religious literature journal. Is this the detail of your conscious arrangement?
Pamuk: Yes. Compared with ordinary Turks, I am a pro-Western, liberal and have more secular values. But that doesn't mean all my characters should be like me. In the past, Turkish secular writers wrote social novels, but they avoided talking about Turkish religion for a reason, because they didn't want to overemphasize it. But in fact, you must present your role accurately. Now there are also Islamic believers among the younger generation in Turkey. Many poets are interested in this. In Snow, I also created an Islamic believer who wanted to be a successful poet. There are many poetry magazines in Turkey. Buy strange magazines while shopping and imagine what kind of people are writing these things. Curiosity, research, imagination, observation and thinking. These are also my jobs. I like the profession of writer, which makes me live and work like an anthropologist, historian and sociologist. My novel is also based on the imagination of other life.
As Adam Kirsch, a professor of literature at Columbia University, mentioned, the juxtaposition of patricide and patricide in the novel makes the ending of the second part full of suspense.
Pamuk: Yes, it is! It is interesting for readers to understand these two myths. This novel is a postmodern story, which makes ancient myths enter modern stories and makes readers ask: Did the father kill his son or did the son kill his father? This is the way to read this book. This is a little book, a book about ideas.
As for the final ending of the story, we can't just summarize it from the plot. This novel is sometimes an allegorical novel, but it is not entirely a traditional medieval fable. For me, the message it conveys is not from its plot, but what the book tries to understand and sympathize with. When I write, I have a * * * sound with many people: sometimes it is a father, sometimes it is a child. But more importantly, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. I'm more concerned about how they see the world. We write novels for two main reasons: first, to express ourselves. How I look at the world, my thoughts, my feelings, and the emotions caused by what I see and hear. Secondly, it is interesting to know people who are different from me and see the world from their perspective. Experiencing different perspectives is one of the greatest pleasures of reading. I have a summary of the essence of writing novels: when writing about yourself, let readers think that you are writing about others; When writing about others, let readers feel that you are writing about yourself.
Or maybe it's to survive.